it was the Australian system that I was referring to. BSc with practice allows individuals to gain practical experience while studying I believe is an year of practice. This is a great opportunity for aspiring engineers to develop their skills in a real-world setting, and it also provides them with a competitive edge when they enter the workforce.
In addition, I want to emphasize my concerns regarding the methodology (used - is not clear in the proposed act) of assessing individuals in the engineering field. As we all know, this process is not always clear and can be unreliable especially if is based on interviewer's decision. That being said, it is important to note that certain institutions, such as IStruct, conduct rigorous evaluations to ensure that candidates have the necessary capabilities to excel in their respective fields. In the case of structural engineering, for example, IStruct administers a 7-hour writen exam with 4 xA3 blank papers pencil and a calculator, to test the abilities of candidates.
Similarly, American engineers have to pass an ET exam to work in consultancy after graduation or during graduation, and a PE exam to work independently after accumulating 5 years of experience. These institutions have strict criteria in place to ensure that only qualified individuals are allowed to attend the exam.
in Europe a candidate can use the engineer title if he graduates from a accredited Technical University or Polytechnic institute (ecole) more than that in consultancy most of the jobs require a minimum MSc (6 years of study - 3 in a major field). some country require the engineer to be registered but not all of them. If you are graduating colleges 2-3 years you have restrictions at what you are allowed to do and is considered some sord of vocational training with a bit of science in it. to get EURing title from Engineers Europe need 5-7 years of education and 4-7 years of experience depending of the country.
Regarding the model you have described with year 12 and 2 years of advance diploma i am sorry but i don't buy it. there is a huge difference between year 9-10-11-12 math's and mathematics in Uni you should checkout linear algebra and differential geometry :) or calculus most definitely who can learn it online is good enough to get any title and be recognized.
While I am not necessarily advocating for the adoption of such a strict systems, I do believe that we should consider implementing a more thorough evaluation process for aspiring engineers especially the registered ones. This will not only ensure that we have competent professionals who can effectively contribute to the field, but it will also increase the level of confidence that the public has in the engineering profession.
To conclude I have no concerns who will get the registration as I don't believe in the point of having it if anyone can get one it's losing its value, at the end you will need insurance to work therefore if you are not prepared you won't be on the market for too long.
I feal for some reason this law goes backwards ... perhaps is just me.
Original Message:
Sent: 12-04-2023 10:34 AM
From: Sean Bamforth
Subject: Professional engineer registration scheme now established in ACT
You appear to be referring to an education system somewhere outside of Australia? If so then your observations are likely to be very different to mine.
You also appear to be constraining your examples to situations where the candidate has no underpinning knowledge and skills; only experience. I agree that such a person would have a major disadvantage in a professional engineering field, however I don't think it is typical of the candidates that EA is considering assessing. The reality is that most of the knowledge and skills necessary to do the job will be picked up through a combination of schooling (up to Year 12), formal training courses (up to Advanced Diploma), targeted short courses, continuing professional development and on-the-job experience. That's why I mentioned aptitude and attitude. A good practitioner will recognise what they don't know and take steps to address the deficiency. You can learn things like unreal numbers, mesh & nodal analysis or finite element analysis without a Bachelor degree. The Internet has made learning a lot easier.
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Sean Bamforth
Original Message:
Sent: 06-04-2023 08:13 AM
From: Boica Nicolae
Subject: Professional engineer registration scheme now established in ACT
I have personally observed instances where unqualified individuals, who held key positions solely based on their 20 years of experience, conducted experiments because they lacked a fundamental understanding of the math involved. While I am not concerned for myself, I believe it would be unfair to engineers, engineering graduates, and future students. These diverse individuals are not even qualified engineers, and there is no impediment to them completing years 3, 4, and 5 to obtain an engineering degree.
In reality, schools exist to provide a structured and effective environment for learning, and the workplace experience complements the theoretical knowledge gained. It is essential to prioritize formal education in the field of engineering to ensure that qualified individuals are trusted to handle critical projects, and unqualified individuals are not placed in positions they are not equipped to handle.
Considering your critical thinking, would you feel comfortable entrusting a nurse, with 20 years of experience in a GP or ER setting, to handle your diagnosis and treatment instead of a doctor? Additionally, if the medical board were to accept applicants based solely on work experience, wouldn't this pose a significant and challenging variable for the medical workforce?
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Boica Nicolae
Original Message:
Sent: 05-04-2023 11:48 PM
From: Sean Bamforth
Subject: Professional engineer registration scheme now established in ACT
I wouldn't be worried at all about the alternative pathway to registration. Quite the opposite in fact. Providing alternative pathways is a great idea to accommodate more variables in the engineering workforce.
Having witnessed a parade of 'qualified' but nonetheless incompetent degree-holding members achieve a CPEng thanks to embellished career episode reports, I think that applying better scrutiny to all applicants will help separate the wheat from the chaff. A Diploma graduate with 20 years of experience spanning many projects is often a better candidate for a professional engineering position than a Degree graduate with less than half that experience; provided that they both have similar knowledge, skills, aptitude and attitude. That's what the competency assessment should be focusing on anyway rather than just the base qualification.
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Sean Bamforth
Original Message:
Sent: 05-04-2023 09:27 AM
From: Boica Nicolae
Subject: Professional engineer registration scheme now established in ACT
I just had a quick read thru the bill and I am surprised of the alterative path way to get your registration.
"Where an applicant does not meet the qualifications, experience or competency requirements, it is proposed that alternative pathways to registration be available. The alternative pathways would allow evidence to be provided that the individual has the skills and knowledge required and meets the required competency standard."
The alternative pathway to registration proposed in the bill would allow individuals who do not meet the traditional qualifications, experience, or competency requirements to provide evidence of their skills and knowledge to meet the required competency standard. This alternative pathway aims to provide more opportunities for individuals who may have acquired some skills and knowledge through non-traditional education or work experience to become registered engineers.
However, the specific assessment methods for evaluating competency for the alternative pathway are not explicitly defined in the bill. This is a concerns about the potential for inconsistent or inadequate assessment methods, which could lead to the registration of unqualified and incompetent engineers.
To address these concerns, it will be essential for the regulatory body overseeing the alternative pathway to establish clear and standardized assessment methods that are comparable to those used for traditional qualifications (couple of written exams). This will help ensure that all registered engineers, regardless of the pathway they took, meet the same high standards of competency.
Overall, while the alternative pathway may have the potential to increase diversity and inclusivity in the engineering community, it must be implemented in a way that maintains the integrity of the registration process and protects the public from unqualified or incompetents.
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Boica Nicolae
Original Message:
Sent: 29-03-2023 10:57 AM
From: Caitlin Buttress
Subject: Professional engineer registration scheme now established in ACT
ACT Professional Engineer Registration passed in the Legislative Assembly
Registration helps to ensure that only those with suitable baseline qualifications - that is, an appropriately recognised engineering degree, enough relevant experience and a proven commitment to ongoing training and professional development can provide engineering services. The basic registration scheme structure proposed will register initially five professional engineering occupations (civil, structural, mechanical, electrical and fire safety) and apply it to those who work in any industry.
Engineers Australia has provided advice to the ACT Government and the Environment Planning and Sustainable Development Directorate throughout the Bill's development to ensure that the legislation is fit for purpose. The next steps will be to continue working closely with the ACT Government on the implementation of the scheme throughout this year. The scheme is expected to commence in late 2023.
This step forward is a big deal for engineers and most importantly Canberrans. An ACT engineering registration scheme should go a long way in boosting consumer and industry confidence in the Territory's building, infrastructure and innovation sectors.
We willl post updates on the development of the scheme via this channel.
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Caitlin Buttress
General Manager, ACT
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